Many colleges use a network of their alumni to interview student applicants. My alma mater, Brown University, uses alumni interviews exclusively; some schools use them for students who might not be able to schedule an interview on-campus. Based upon my many years of alumni interviewing, here are some tips on what to do and what not to do.
Before The Interview
Check your e-mail regularly throughout your senior year. While most of your electronic communications these days are done by text messaging, Facebook and my space, e-mail is how many schools contact applicants and how some interview requests are made. Respond immediately.
Talk to your parents in advance. If you get a phone call or a message is left at your home about an interview, it is best that you schedule the appointment, not your mom. If you are unavailable to return the call because you are out of town, then it's ok for a parent to call and say when you'll be back or to offer to help schedule something. Under those circumstances, you should make a follow up call upon your return so the interviewer knows that you are in control.
When you make the appointment for the interview, be certain to exchange phone numbers with the interviewer so you can contact him or her at the last minute if you need to.
Interviews are voluntary, but if you decide to decline an interview request, it is best to explain why, especially if it is a school you are interested in. Many schools use the interview to gauge a student's level of interest.
At The Interivew
What should you wear? Generally, unless the interviewer has told you otherwise, you should wear age-appropriate "business" attire. A suit and tie are probably unnecessary, but slacks or a skirt and a collared shirt or dressy top are a good idea as a minimum. I personally tell students that is ok to dress casually, because I'd like them to feel relaxed, but you should not wear jeans unless someone has told you casual is ok. Avoid tight, torn or revealing clothing whatever the dress code.
Some other basics: be on time. Tuck your cell phone away, and be very sure it will not ring or buzz during the interview.
Bring your resume or brag sheet. If the interviewer declines it, that is fine. I don't know about other schools, but Brown intentionally provides the interviewers with very little information from your application. A Brown interviewer does not have your transcript, GPA or test scores because the admissions office has all that data and they would like the interviewer to get to know you as a person. However, some interviewers find a list of honors, interests or outside activities helpful as a starting point.
When you arrive, it is ok if a parent is with you. Your parents are not ruining your life or making you appear dorky because they want to meet some stranger who called their kid and told them to show up someplace. If an interviewer asks you to come to their home or office, it is perfectly ok for a parent to call the admissions office and make sure it is legit. I usually interview in coffee shops, and if a parent wants to meet me it is fine. I'll tell them we'll be about an hour, that you will call them when we are done and I will stay with you until they arrive. Mom or dad should not hover in the same place where the interview is taking place.
The Interview
I know it's hard, but relax. Expect a friendly conversation. I'll ask questions about your activities and honors, what subjects you like the best, the achievements you are most proud of, what you spend your time on and what you are passionate about. Help me make our time a conversation, not a question and answer session where I do all the asking and you answer. Look me in the eye. Have some questions ready for me. Like students, some interviewers are easier to talk to or seem more friendly than others. Just remember that your interviewer will be writing a report about you, so you should look past the ways you think they are weird or dull and do your best. Also keep in mind that your interviewer really wants to say nice things about you.
An interviewer's job is two-fold: to put a personal face on the school and answer questions you might have about what it's like to go there, and to help the admissions office evaluate you. The school is asking the interviewer to discern if you are actually interested in the school and what kind of student they think you are...serious, determined, creative, inquisitive? They want to know what you are most interested in and what you like to do outside the classroom. They want to hear what kind of a person you are. They want the interviewer's impressions of you to see if they match with what your recommendations and essays say about you. They're trying to figure out if your dad or your counselor wrote your essays. If you think, for any reason, that your application materials and transcript don't adequately describe who you are, now is your chance to shine.
After The Interview
Follow up with a thank you. Be specific; mention something about the school you didn't know and learned in the interview. If the interviewer didn't know the answer to one of your questions but directed you to the school website, go look it up and tell them you found the answer.
Friday, November 20, 2009
Tuesday, November 17, 2009
So Where Do I Fit In This Picture?
When I began my formal college counseling coursework, I thought I would seek employment in a school or organization where I could work with students who need help and guidance with their post-secondary school planning. The other possible career path for a college counselor is to become an independent counselor, a private consultant hired by families to assist them through the college selection and application process.
I'm excited for students making college plans. My inclination toward working in a school came largely from my desire to help students who are unfamiliar with or intimidated by the application process, students who might not be aware of all the ways to plan and pay for education beyond high school, kids who might not know what a college education has to offer them.
My very best friends are elementary school teachers in an urban public school. They are professionals committed to helping their students find their wings through education. They deal with bureaucracy, mediocre facilities, ornery and capricious administrators, co-workers who are not as caring, talented or dedicated as they are. For all the aggravation, their faces never fail to light up when they have a breakthrough with a challenging student. How could I not be inspired by their example?
And then reality began to eat away at the edges of my altruism. I have been volunteering in the college counseling office at the local public high school. There are five academic counselors and one college counselor for a student body of 3500; one of the academic counselors serves the 300 student magnet program, which leaves four academic counselors for the remaining 3200 students and one college counselor for the entire student body. The dropout rate for the school is over forty percent. Certainly this is a group which needs no end of inspiration to graduate from high school and seek further educational opportunities.
I walk through the industrial grey hallways of the school, which by their drabness shout "no" and "go stand in line." The college counselor, working with a group of committed seniors in a peer-to-peer program, does a lot with the limited resources and time she has. And I mean really limited time, since she is also responsible for the administration of the PSAT to a thousand kids in the fall and AP tests in the spring. I've only witnessed the fall PSAT, which involved some of the most absurd, convoluted school district required accounting and scheduling issues imaginable. Watching her work is a bit like watching a short order cook, juggling student peer counselor queries, doling out testing fee waivers, planning a field trip to a local nursing school, and answering random student questions all while speaking politely to a temporary administrator sent by the district office because they apparently think the school needs more administration. The idea that she could actually sit down, interview a student about their academic interests and career plans, review their transcript, talk about test scores, devise a list of potential schools, discuss recommendations and essays, and point out scholarship opportunities is laughable. For her to spend five uninterrupted minutes with a student is unusual.
Slowly, the idea of being an independent counselor has seemed more appealing. It's uncomfortable to feel like I'm giving up on the really needy before I've even started, but would I really have a chance to do what I want to do, or would I be buried by the stuff? I might actually be more fulfilled selling out, working for families who already know the value of a college education and are willing to pay for someone to help them successfully navigate the process.
Yesterday I met a local independent counselor who was incredibly generous with her time, responding to my cold call with an offer to talk, educate and explain her business philosophy to me. She served me lemonade, showed me her office, gave me a wealth of information and asked for nothing in return. She does the same for students who cannot afford her fees. Perhaps there was a lesson in that for me, about the simple joy of making a difference in the life and educational path of someone who asks for help.
I'm excited for students making college plans. My inclination toward working in a school came largely from my desire to help students who are unfamiliar with or intimidated by the application process, students who might not be aware of all the ways to plan and pay for education beyond high school, kids who might not know what a college education has to offer them.
My very best friends are elementary school teachers in an urban public school. They are professionals committed to helping their students find their wings through education. They deal with bureaucracy, mediocre facilities, ornery and capricious administrators, co-workers who are not as caring, talented or dedicated as they are. For all the aggravation, their faces never fail to light up when they have a breakthrough with a challenging student. How could I not be inspired by their example?
And then reality began to eat away at the edges of my altruism. I have been volunteering in the college counseling office at the local public high school. There are five academic counselors and one college counselor for a student body of 3500; one of the academic counselors serves the 300 student magnet program, which leaves four academic counselors for the remaining 3200 students and one college counselor for the entire student body. The dropout rate for the school is over forty percent. Certainly this is a group which needs no end of inspiration to graduate from high school and seek further educational opportunities.
I walk through the industrial grey hallways of the school, which by their drabness shout "no" and "go stand in line." The college counselor, working with a group of committed seniors in a peer-to-peer program, does a lot with the limited resources and time she has. And I mean really limited time, since she is also responsible for the administration of the PSAT to a thousand kids in the fall and AP tests in the spring. I've only witnessed the fall PSAT, which involved some of the most absurd, convoluted school district required accounting and scheduling issues imaginable. Watching her work is a bit like watching a short order cook, juggling student peer counselor queries, doling out testing fee waivers, planning a field trip to a local nursing school, and answering random student questions all while speaking politely to a temporary administrator sent by the district office because they apparently think the school needs more administration. The idea that she could actually sit down, interview a student about their academic interests and career plans, review their transcript, talk about test scores, devise a list of potential schools, discuss recommendations and essays, and point out scholarship opportunities is laughable. For her to spend five uninterrupted minutes with a student is unusual.
Slowly, the idea of being an independent counselor has seemed more appealing. It's uncomfortable to feel like I'm giving up on the really needy before I've even started, but would I really have a chance to do what I want to do, or would I be buried by the stuff? I might actually be more fulfilled selling out, working for families who already know the value of a college education and are willing to pay for someone to help them successfully navigate the process.
Yesterday I met a local independent counselor who was incredibly generous with her time, responding to my cold call with an offer to talk, educate and explain her business philosophy to me. She served me lemonade, showed me her office, gave me a wealth of information and asked for nothing in return. She does the same for students who cannot afford her fees. Perhaps there was a lesson in that for me, about the simple joy of making a difference in the life and educational path of someone who asks for help.
Monday, November 16, 2009
Weeding When There Are Only Flowers
On Saturday, I had the opportunity to attend a seminar given by Jim Miller, the Dean of Admissions for Brown University. The purpose of his talk was to educate volunteer alumni interviewers about the admissions process so that the alumni interview reports will be of maximum benefit to the admissions committee.
More interesting, certainly, would be the deep secrets of admissions he revealed. And of course, there were none. He did, however, debunk some myths.
Myth #1: Community Service is required to get into college. Pretty much not so, now that most high schools have community service requirements. Forced altruism is not as impressive as good works done because of a pure desire to do good.
Myth #2: College admissions is made or lost depending on summer enrichment programs. Not so much. Apparently the admissions folks are impressed when kids actually have jobs, since it is such a rarity. He quipped that students who have bona fide work experience are as rare as the handful of US high school students who have not been on an enrichment trip to Costa Rica. Brown does have a summer program for high school students, and attending it has no impact on admissions.
Myth #3: Admissions officers count the number of AP classes a student takes. Schools look at a high school profile and they look at your transcript. Yes, you should take the most demanding curriculum you can at which you will do well. In answer to the question, "should I take an AP class and get a B or an honors class and get an A?" the answer was you should take the AP class and get an A because yes, admissions is that competitive.
Myth #4: Applying Early Decision increases your chance for acceptance. Looking at the figures, the admit rate for early decision candidates last year was 24%, and the admit rate in the regular admissions pool was 11%. However, the early decision admit rate includes recruited athletes for the school's thirty-seven Division I varsity teams, and one they are removed from the calculation, the admissions rate is nearly equal for both groups. Yes, it is good to let admissions know that your interest is high and sincere, and if you can make the commitment it's great. But there are also other ways of getting interest across, and applying ED may not be the best approach for a student needing financial aid, and they get that.
What is not a myth, according to Dean Miller, is the fact that college going rates among men are not going well. Read nearly any description of a college in any college guide, and the ratio of women to men is not balanced. While there are not demographic changes in birth rates, there are nearly six applications for women for every four applications from men seeking to attend Brown. It is not a new trend, and the ratios cited have held steady for about ten years. He decried the impact that this issue will have upon our nation in the years to come.
He also gave everyone a chance to participate in a mock admissions committee discussion, using admissions files from years past. We were divided into groups, and each group had to read their candidate's file and pitch the student to the other groups. It was interesting to read a full admissions file, because as alumni interviewers we are given no information on the candidates, in hopes that our reports will validate or point out inconsistencies in students' files. So while it is easy to rattle off an accomplished student's GPA, test scores, significant activities and honors and wonder why that student was denied admission, when all the data, recommendations and essays are considered, often you can see why admissions officers might believe that a student would be better served at another school. Undoubtedly, decisions are made on the thinnest margin of nuance. But Dean Miller felt strongly that the process, which begins with the careful reading of all files, followed by committee discussions, debates and votes really does work.
More interesting, certainly, would be the deep secrets of admissions he revealed. And of course, there were none. He did, however, debunk some myths.
Myth #1: Community Service is required to get into college. Pretty much not so, now that most high schools have community service requirements. Forced altruism is not as impressive as good works done because of a pure desire to do good.
Myth #2: College admissions is made or lost depending on summer enrichment programs. Not so much. Apparently the admissions folks are impressed when kids actually have jobs, since it is such a rarity. He quipped that students who have bona fide work experience are as rare as the handful of US high school students who have not been on an enrichment trip to Costa Rica. Brown does have a summer program for high school students, and attending it has no impact on admissions.
Myth #3: Admissions officers count the number of AP classes a student takes. Schools look at a high school profile and they look at your transcript. Yes, you should take the most demanding curriculum you can at which you will do well. In answer to the question, "should I take an AP class and get a B or an honors class and get an A?" the answer was you should take the AP class and get an A because yes, admissions is that competitive.
Myth #4: Applying Early Decision increases your chance for acceptance. Looking at the figures, the admit rate for early decision candidates last year was 24%, and the admit rate in the regular admissions pool was 11%. However, the early decision admit rate includes recruited athletes for the school's thirty-seven Division I varsity teams, and one they are removed from the calculation, the admissions rate is nearly equal for both groups. Yes, it is good to let admissions know that your interest is high and sincere, and if you can make the commitment it's great. But there are also other ways of getting interest across, and applying ED may not be the best approach for a student needing financial aid, and they get that.
What is not a myth, according to Dean Miller, is the fact that college going rates among men are not going well. Read nearly any description of a college in any college guide, and the ratio of women to men is not balanced. While there are not demographic changes in birth rates, there are nearly six applications for women for every four applications from men seeking to attend Brown. It is not a new trend, and the ratios cited have held steady for about ten years. He decried the impact that this issue will have upon our nation in the years to come.
He also gave everyone a chance to participate in a mock admissions committee discussion, using admissions files from years past. We were divided into groups, and each group had to read their candidate's file and pitch the student to the other groups. It was interesting to read a full admissions file, because as alumni interviewers we are given no information on the candidates, in hopes that our reports will validate or point out inconsistencies in students' files. So while it is easy to rattle off an accomplished student's GPA, test scores, significant activities and honors and wonder why that student was denied admission, when all the data, recommendations and essays are considered, often you can see why admissions officers might believe that a student would be better served at another school. Undoubtedly, decisions are made on the thinnest margin of nuance. But Dean Miller felt strongly that the process, which begins with the careful reading of all files, followed by committee discussions, debates and votes really does work.
Sunday, November 15, 2009
Beginning at the beginning
As I begin to write, I feel like Julie in Julie & Julia; I am a relative neophyte writing on a subject about which I have a great deal to learn. Sadly, for any reader who may stumble across this, my posts are unlikely to conjure up fantasies of fragrant beef stew, freshly baked pastries or hearty red wine.
Why college counseling? After years interviewing student applicants as an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, I have come to believe that many students are poorly guided in the college admissions process. Some come from schools without sufficient resources to help them. Some come from low income families or are from backgrounds in which their parents are unfamiliar with the process and are unable to help their children. Some are so hell bent on going to a name school, whether because of pressure from parents or peers, they torture themselves with insanely demanding academic and extra-curricular schedules that leave them no time to figure out who they are or what they want for their futures. So I am taking classes, devouring websites, reading articles and books and volunteering in the college counseling office at a local high school, to educate myself in order to better help high school students navigate their way to a great college experience.
When should the process begin? In an ideal world, as early as possible. Among students headed for ultra competitive schools, the courses students take in middle school prepare them for a more competitive class load in high school, although many would argue, myself included, that beginning the discussion in middle school puts unnecessary pressure on young kids. But ninth graders need to understand that the courses they take and the grades they get throughout their high school careers are an important factor in the opportunities they will have. In California, admission to the University of California system or the Cal State Universities requires the successful completion of a specific set of courses which must begin in the ninth grade. In the tenth grade (again in the ideal world), it's good to get students thinking about their strengths, possible career choices, about what kind of school they might like to go to, and whether they need extra practice to get ready for SAT and ACT tests.
It's also a great idea for students to stop and consider why they are choosing to go to college. For many, college is an assumed next step after high school and for them, the focus is choosing schools and getting in. For other students, it is all a bit mysterious, perhaps because no one in their family has ever been to college, or because the path of least resistance is to go to the closest or least expensive school. But an earnest, open-ended discussion of "why college" can help a student for whom college is a given take a more global, less myopic view of the process and look at schools for reasons beyond "all my friends are applying there," "that's where my parents want me to go" or because it's a school they've heard of before. And for students at the other end of the spectrum, it can help broaden their viewpoint.
So those are the lofty thoughts I had when I walked into the college counseling office at a local high school on my first day as a volunteer. It is a large, urban high school with about 3500 students in the regular school population and two magnet programs. In the regular school population of about 3100 students, there are just over 500 seniors. Rough calculations lead to the conclusion that a whole lot of students have dropped out, over forty percent? Then I was asked to do a "grad check" for an eleventh grade girl who wandered in to the office; in other words, see if she was on track to graduate. Her transcript contained A's in French & phys ed and D's and F's in everything else and she had or was taking makeup classes in a hodgepodge of adult education programs, summer school and community college. Clearly, she isn't heading to a four-year college anytime soon. I was speechless. Months later I'm still amazed at the number of students who routinely fail classes. In my college counseling classes, there are extensive textbook articles and discussions about "underserved" populations who need improved college access. We haven't talked much about the kids who can't or don't even finish this not very good urban high school. Underserved, indeed.
My favorite day at the high school thus far came when I was also in the throes of a big project for a counseling class on career planning. Flush with thoughts of online assessments, personality analysis and websites that were full of great ideas to get students thinking about a wide variety of careers, a girl came in and asked the college counselor, "Mrs. [Counselor], what school would you go to if you wanted to do makeup on dead people in a funeral home?" Wow. No kidding. The only thing that surprised me more than the question was the speed with which Mrs. C rattled off the name of a local trade school and a nearby community college.
Given the high ideals and standards incorporated into my college counseling courses versus the reality of the kids who really could use some help, I'm not sure where this road will take me. But I'm looking forward to the ride.
Why college counseling? After years interviewing student applicants as an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, I have come to believe that many students are poorly guided in the college admissions process. Some come from schools without sufficient resources to help them. Some come from low income families or are from backgrounds in which their parents are unfamiliar with the process and are unable to help their children. Some are so hell bent on going to a name school, whether because of pressure from parents or peers, they torture themselves with insanely demanding academic and extra-curricular schedules that leave them no time to figure out who they are or what they want for their futures. So I am taking classes, devouring websites, reading articles and books and volunteering in the college counseling office at a local high school, to educate myself in order to better help high school students navigate their way to a great college experience.
When should the process begin? In an ideal world, as early as possible. Among students headed for ultra competitive schools, the courses students take in middle school prepare them for a more competitive class load in high school, although many would argue, myself included, that beginning the discussion in middle school puts unnecessary pressure on young kids. But ninth graders need to understand that the courses they take and the grades they get throughout their high school careers are an important factor in the opportunities they will have. In California, admission to the University of California system or the Cal State Universities requires the successful completion of a specific set of courses which must begin in the ninth grade. In the tenth grade (again in the ideal world), it's good to get students thinking about their strengths, possible career choices, about what kind of school they might like to go to, and whether they need extra practice to get ready for SAT and ACT tests.
It's also a great idea for students to stop and consider why they are choosing to go to college. For many, college is an assumed next step after high school and for them, the focus is choosing schools and getting in. For other students, it is all a bit mysterious, perhaps because no one in their family has ever been to college, or because the path of least resistance is to go to the closest or least expensive school. But an earnest, open-ended discussion of "why college" can help a student for whom college is a given take a more global, less myopic view of the process and look at schools for reasons beyond "all my friends are applying there," "that's where my parents want me to go" or because it's a school they've heard of before. And for students at the other end of the spectrum, it can help broaden their viewpoint.
So those are the lofty thoughts I had when I walked into the college counseling office at a local high school on my first day as a volunteer. It is a large, urban high school with about 3500 students in the regular school population and two magnet programs. In the regular school population of about 3100 students, there are just over 500 seniors. Rough calculations lead to the conclusion that a whole lot of students have dropped out, over forty percent? Then I was asked to do a "grad check" for an eleventh grade girl who wandered in to the office; in other words, see if she was on track to graduate. Her transcript contained A's in French & phys ed and D's and F's in everything else and she had or was taking makeup classes in a hodgepodge of adult education programs, summer school and community college. Clearly, she isn't heading to a four-year college anytime soon. I was speechless. Months later I'm still amazed at the number of students who routinely fail classes. In my college counseling classes, there are extensive textbook articles and discussions about "underserved" populations who need improved college access. We haven't talked much about the kids who can't or don't even finish this not very good urban high school. Underserved, indeed.
My favorite day at the high school thus far came when I was also in the throes of a big project for a counseling class on career planning. Flush with thoughts of online assessments, personality analysis and websites that were full of great ideas to get students thinking about a wide variety of careers, a girl came in and asked the college counselor, "Mrs. [Counselor], what school would you go to if you wanted to do makeup on dead people in a funeral home?" Wow. No kidding. The only thing that surprised me more than the question was the speed with which Mrs. C rattled off the name of a local trade school and a nearby community college.
Given the high ideals and standards incorporated into my college counseling courses versus the reality of the kids who really could use some help, I'm not sure where this road will take me. But I'm looking forward to the ride.
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